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Dear Patients,

I created this forum to welcome any questions you have on the topic of infertility, IVF, conception, testing, evaluation, or any related topics. I do my best to answer all questions in less than 24 hours. I know your question is important and, in many cases, I will answer within just a few hours. Thank you for taking the time to trust me with your concern.

– Geoffrey Sher, MD

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21,621 Comments

CV

Hi Dr. Sher,
I’d greatly appreciate your thoughts on my situation:
39 y/o healthy woman with cycle day two estradiol 31, fsh 5.3, AMH 5.3ng/ml, other normal standard pre IVF lab tests and screening USG showing good antral follicle count as per RE.
History of 3 IUIs- 3rd IUI resulting in pregnancy that was miscarried at 4 weeks post IUI.
My first IVF stim cycle looked like this:
Gonal F 150U and Menopur 3 vials (225 U) from stim days 1-8 +
Omnitrope 25 U on alternate days- Day 1,3,5,7,9 (total 5 doses)
Ganirelix 250 mcg on days 6,7,8,9,10
Lupron on day 9 + novarel 1666U (for novarel I was instructed to mix 3ml water in 5000U novarel vial- then withdraw and inject 1ml)
letrozole 2.5 mg po tab and bromocriptine 2.5 mg vaginal tab started days 9,10 and post retrieval
doxycycline 100mg tab night of day 10
retrieval was on day 11 – 36 hrs after trigger
My day 9 estradiol was 3766
on day 9 USG, RE had visualized 40 follicles, on day 11 retrieved 19/40, noted 10/19 were mature, 8/10 fertilized with ICSI, 5/8 made it to day 5 and day 6 blastocysts
cyro report on day 6 showed 3B-B-, 6BB, 3BB-, CBF, 3B-B-
Genetic testing
1. complex abnormal -16 -22 Male
2. complex abnormal -4q -6 Male
3. complex abnormal -18 -20 XO —
4. complex abnormal -11 -15q -16 Male
5. complex abnormal -19 +21 -22 Male
My RE who was very optimistic till PGTA results arrived, now wants me to be mentally prepared for further disappointments down the road and alluded that having 5/5 complex abnormal on PGTA portends an unfavourable genetic profile in future testings as well. I have therefore been asked to have an open mind about egg donation. I’m to start a second cycle of stim next month.

1. I’m left wondering if all of the complex abnormals boil down to my egg quality being bad vs the possibility of using low dose trigger shot.
2. Does having 5/5 complex abnormal blastocysts in round 1 indeed suggest a lower probability of having future genetically normal blastocysts?
3. How would you alter this regimen to maximize chances of having atleast one PGTA normal blastocyst without a significant risk of OHSS?
I would like to prepare for the worst and hope for the best.
Thanks,
CV

reply
Dr. Geoffrey Sher

1. I’m left wondering if all of the complex abnormals boil down to my egg quality being bad vs the possibility of using low dose trigger shot.

A: I would need a great deal more information to respond with full confidence.

2. Does having 5/5 complex abnormal blastocysts in round 1 indeed suggest a lower probability of having future genetically normal blastocysts?

A: I personally do not believe so. In my opinion, this has to do with establishing a deliacte balance during ovarian stimulation in someone like you who over-responds.

3. How would you alter this regimen to maximize chances of having atleast one PGTA normal blastocyst without a significant risk
of OHSS?

This is right up my alley but we will need to discuss.

Severe ovarian hyperstimulation syndrome (OHSS) is a life-endangering complication that occurs in some women undergoing controlled Ovarian Stimulation (COS). OHSS is often accompanied by a profound reduction in egg “competency” and on fertilization often yield an inordinately high percentage of “incompetent” embryos which have a reduced potential to propagate viable pregnancies.
Concern that a patient will develop of OHSS often leads the treating RE to take measures aimed at reducing the risk of this life-endangering condition. One such measures is to “trigger” egg maturation prematurely in the hope of arresting further follicular growth and the other, is to initiate the “trigger” with a reduced dosage of hCG (i.ed. 5,000U rather than the usual 10,000U of of Pregnyl/Profasi/Novarel, to use or 250mcg rather than 500mcg of Ovidrel or to supplant the hCG “trigger” with a Lupron “trigger” which causes a prompt LH surge from the woman’s pituitary gland to take place. While such measures do indeed reduce the risk of OHSS to the mother, this often comes at the expense of egg quantity and “competency”. Fewer than the anticipated number of eggs are harvested and those that are retrieved are far more likely to be “immature” and chromosomally abnormal (aneuploid”), or “immature” , thereby significantly compromising IVF outcome.
Against this background, It is my considered opinion that when it comes to performing IVF in women at risk of developing OHSS, the most important consideration must be the selection and proper implementation of an individualized or customized ovarian stimulation protocol. Thereupon, rather than prematurely initiating the “trigger” to arrest further follicle growth, administering a reduced dosage of hCG or “triggering with a GnRH agonist (e.g. Lupron/Buserelin) that can compromise egg “competency”….. use of one of the following techniques will often markedly reduce the risk of OHSS while at the same time protecting egg quality:
1. PROLONGED COASTING (PC): OHSS can be a life-endangering complication of ovarian stimulation with gonadotropins. The risk of OHSS begins with the hCG “trigger”. The complication occurs in very high responders to gonadotropin stimulation. Women with PC0S, irregular cycles and AMH levels that are X3 the normal are at the greatest risk of developing OHSS. In such patients, ovarian stimulation commences with the same approach as above (using a BCP launch and an agonist (e.g Lupron/buserelin/Superfact/aminopeptidyl) overlap. Only in such patients a very low dosage regime of FSHr /menotropin isused . Then, starting on day 7 of ovarian stimulation, serial daily blood estradiol (E2) and ultrasound follicle assessments are done to track follicle development and [E2]. If there are > 25 follicles, gonadotropin stimulating continues, regardless of the [E2]. As soon as 50% of all follicles reach 14mm and the [E2] exceeds 2,500pg/ml gonadotropin stimulation id abruptly stopped, while daily agonist injections continue. Daily blood [E2 ] is tracked, (without necessarily continuing serial ultrasound follicle measurements). The [E2] will almost invariably continue to rise for a few days whereupon it will begin to, drop. As soon as the [E2] drops below 2,500pg/ml, a “trigger” shot of 10,000U hCGu or hCGr is administered and an egg retrieval is performed 36 hours later. At this point, All mature (MII) eggs are either cryobanked (vitrified) or (as is far more commonly the case), are fertilized by intracytoplasmic Sperm Injection (ICSI) and are then cultured for 5-6 days to the blastocyst stage whereupon they are either biopsied for preimplantation genetic screening and then cryopreserved (vitrified) for future use vitrified without prior biopsy for PGS or e transferred fresh, to the uterus during the same cycle of treatment. The outcome of PC depends on the precise timing of the initiation and conclusion of “prolonged coasting”. If you start PC too early, follicle growth will arrest, and the cycle will be lost. Conversely, if you start too late, you will encounter too many post-mature/cystic follicles (>22mm) that usually harbor abnormally developed eggs. Use of “Coasting” avoids severe OHSS, and minimizes the risk of poor egg/embryo quality in a group of women who otherwise would be at severe risk of life-endangering complications and prone to producing a high percentage of “incompetent” eggs/embryos.
2. EMBRYO FREEZING AND DEFERMENT OF EMBRYO TRANSFEDR (ET): OHSS is always a self-limiting condition. In the absence of continued exposure to hCG, symptoms and signs as well as the risk of severe complications will ultimately abate. Thus, in the absence of pregnancy, all symptoms, signs and risks associated with OHSS will disappear within about 10-14 days of the hCG trigger. Conversely, since early pregnancy is always accompanied by a rapid and progressive rise in hCG , the severity of OHSS will increase until about the 9th or tenth gestational week whereupon a transition from ovarian to placental hormonal dominance occurs, the severity of OHSS rapidly diminishes and the patient will be out of risk. Accordingly, in cases where in spite of best effort to prevent OHSS, the woman develops symptoms and signs of progressive overstimulation prior to planned ET, all the blastocysts should be vitrified and cryostored for FET in a subsequent hormone replacement cycle. In this way women with OHSS can be spared the risk of the condition spiraling out of control.
I strongly recommend that you visit http://www.DrGeoffreySherIVF.com . Then go to my Blog and access the “search bar”. Type in the titles of any/all of the articles listed below, one by one. “Click” and you will immediately be taken to those you select. Please also take the time to post any questions or comments with the full expectation that I will (as always) respond promptly.
· The IVF Journey: The importance of “Planning the Trip” Before Taking the Ride”
· Controlled Ovarian Stimulation (COS) for IVF: Selecting the ideal protocol
· IVF: Factors Affecting Egg/Embryo “competency” during Controlled Ovarian Stimulation(COS)
· The Fundamental Requirements For Achieving Optimal IVF Success
· Use of GnRH Antagonists (Ganirelix/Cetrotide/Orgalutron) in IVF-Ovarian Stimulation Protocols.
· Anti Mullerian Hormone (AMH) Measurement to Assess Ovarian Reserve and Design the Optimal Protocol for Controlled Ovarian Stimulation (COS) in IVF.
· Egg Maturation in IVF: How Egg “Immaturity”, “Post-maturity” and “Dysmaturity” Influence IVF Outcome:
· Commonly Asked Question in IVF: “Why Did so Few of my Eggs Fertilize and, so Many Fail to Reach Blastocyst?”
· Human Growth Hormone Administration in IVF: Does it Enhances Egg/Embryo Quality and Outcome?
· The BCP: Does Launching a Cycle of Controlled Ovarian Stimulation (COS). Coming off the BCP Compromise Response?
· Taking A Fresh Look at Ovarian Hyperstimulation Syndrome (OHSS), its Presentation, Prevention and Management
· Preventing Severe Ovarian Hyperstimulation Syndrome (OHSS) with “Prolonged Coasting”
· Understanding Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome (PCOS) and the Need to Customize Ovarian Stimulation Protocols.
· “Triggering” Egg Maturation in IVF: Comparing urine-derived hCG, Recombinant DNA-hCG and GnRH-agonist:
· The “Lupron Trigger” to Prevent Severe OHSS: What are the Pro’s and Con’s?
• .Frozen Embryo Transfer (FET) versus “Fresh” ET: How to Make the Decision
• Frozen Embryo Transfer (FET): A Rational Approach to Hormonal Preparation and How new Methodology is Impacting IVF.
• Implications of “Empty Follicle Syndrome and “Premature Luteinization”
• Premature Luteinization (“the premature LH surge): Why it happens and how it can be prevented.
• Preventing Severe Ovarian Hyperstimulation Syndrome (OHSS) with “Prolonged Coasting”

______________________________________________________
ADDENDUM: PLEASE READ!!
INTRODUCING SHER FERTILITY SOLUTIONS (SFS)
Founded in April 2019, Sher Fertility Solutions (SFS) offers online (Skype/FaceTime) consultations to patients from > 40 different countries. All consultations are followed by a detailed written report presenting my personal recommendations for treatment of what often constitute complex Reproductive Issues.

Patients are encouraged to share the information I provide, with their treating Physicians and/or to avail themselves of my personal hands-on services, provided through batched IVF cycles that I conduct every 3 months at Los Angeles IVF (LAIVF) Clinic, Century City, Los Angeles, CA.

If you wish to schedule an online consultation with me, please contact my assistant (Patti Converse) by phone (800-780-7437/702-533-2691), email (concierge@SherIVF.com) or, enroll online on then home-page of my website (www.SherIVF.com).

PLEASE SPREAD THE WORD ABOUT SFS!

Geoff Sher

reply
Marci

Dr. Sher, I just did my 2nd Day 3 transfer with 2 embryos and again, they failed to implant. The first time both had 7 cells, this time I had a compounding 8 cell and an 8 cell. I have 3 more blasts that were frozen 2 of grade A quality and one BB. I feel like we are wasting my embryos each try we do.

What tests can we do to figure out the implant issue? Or is this an egg quality issue?

Should I do another cycle before trying to implant the blasts as I’m already 38? I’m afraid the blasts will fail and we wanted multiple children.

reply
Dr. Geoffrey Sher

Whenever a patient fails to achieve a viable pregnancy following embryo transfer (ET), the first question asked is why! Was it simply due to, bad luck?, How likely is the failure to recur in future attempts and what can be done differently, to avoid it happening next time?.
It is an indisputable fact that any IVF procedure is at least as likely to fail as it is to succeed. Thus when it comes to outcome, luck is an undeniable factor. Notwithstanding, it is incumbent upon the treating physician to carefully consider and address the causes of IVF failure before proceeding to another attempt:
1. Age: The chance of a woman under 35Y of age having a baby per embryo transfer is about 35-40%. From there it declines progressively to under 5% by the time she reaches her mid-forties. This is largely due to declining chromosomal integrity of the eggs with advancing age…”a wear and tear effect” on eggs that are in the ovaries from birth.
2. Embryo Quality/”competency (capable of propagating a viable pregnancy)”. As stated, the woman’s age plays a big role in determining egg/embryo quality/”competency”. This having been said, aside from age the protocol used for controlled ovarian stimulation (COS) is the next most important factor. It is especially important when it comes to older women, and women with diminished ovarian reserve (DOR) where it becomes essential to be aggressive, and to customize and individualize the ovarian stimulation protocol.
We used to believe that the uterine environment is more beneficial to embryo development than is the incubator/petri dish and that accordingly, the earlier on in development that embryos are transferred to the uterus, the better. To achieve this goal, we used to select embryos for transfer based upon their day two or microscopic appearance (“grade”). But we have since learned that the further an embryo has advanced in its development, the more likely it is to be “competent” and that embryos failing to reach the expanded blastocyst stage within 5-6 days of being fertilized are almost invariably “incompetent” and are unworthy of being transferred. Moreover, the introduction into clinical practice about 15y ago, (by Levent Keskintepe PhD and myself) of Preimplantation Genetic Sampling (PGS), which assesses for the presence of all the embryos chromosomes (complete chromosomal karyotyping), provides another tool by which to select the most “competent” embryos for transfer. This methodology has selective benefit when it comes to older women, women with DOR, cases of unexplained repeated IVF failure and women who experience recurrent pregnancy loss (RPL).
3. The number of the embryos transferred: Most patients believe that the more embryos transferred the greater the chance of success. To some extent this might be true, but if the problem lies with the use of a suboptimal COS protocol, transferring more embryos at a time won’t improve the chance of success. Nor will the transfer of a greater number of embryos solve an underlying embryo implantation dysfunction (anatomical molecular or immunologic).Moreover, the transfer of multiple embryos, should they implant, can and all too often does result in triplets or greater (high order multiples) which increases the incidence of maternal pregnancy-induced complications and of premature delivery with its serious risks to the newborn. It is for this reason that I rarely recommend the transfer of more than 2 embryos at a time and am moving in the direction of advising single embryo transfers …especially when it comes to transferring embryos derived through the fertilization of eggs from young women.

4. Implantation Dysfunction (ID): Implantation dysfunction is a very common (often overlooked) cause of “unexplained” IVF failure. This is especially the case in young ovulating women who have normal ovarian reserve and have fertile partners. Failure to identify, typify, and address such issues is, in my opinion, an unfortunate and relatively common cause of repeated IVF failure in such women. Common sense dictates that if ultrasound guided embryo transfer is performed competently and yet repeated IVF attempts fail to propagate a viable pregnancy, implantation dysfunction must be seriously considered. Yet ID is probably the most overlooked factor. The most common causes of implantation dysfunction are:

a. A“ thin uterine lining”
b. A uterus with surface lesions in the cavity (polyps, fibroids, scar tissue)
c. Immunologic implantation dysfunction (IID)
d. Endocrine/molecular endometrial receptivity issues
e. Ureaplasma Urealyticum (UU) Infection of cervical mucous and the endometrial lining of the uterus, can sometimes present as unexplained early pregnancy loss or unexplained failure following intrauterine insemination or IVF. The infection can also occur in the man, (prostatitis) and thus can go back and forth between partners, with sexual intercourse. This is the reason why both partners must be tested and if positive, should be treated contemporaneously.
Certain causes of infertility are repetitive and thus cannot readily be reversed. Examples include advanced age of the woman; severe male infertility; immunologic infertility associated with alloimmune implantation dysfunction (especially if it is a “complete DQ alpha genetic match between partners plus uterine natural killer cell activation (NKa).
I strongly recommend that you visit http://www.DrGeoffreySherIVF.com. Then go to my Blog and access the “search bar”. Type in the titles of any/all of the articles listed below, one by one. “Click” and you will immediately be taken to those you select. Please also take the time to post any questions or comments with the full expectation that I will (as always) respond promptly.

• The IVF Journey: The importance of “Planning the Trip” Before Taking the Ride”
• Controlled Ovarian Stimulation (COS) for IVF: Selecting the ideal protocol
• IVF: Factors Affecting Egg/Embryo “competency” during Controlled Ovarian Stimulation (COS)
• The Fundamental Requirements for Achieving Optimal IVF Success
• Use of GnRH Antagonists (Ganirelix/Cetrotide/Orgalutron) in IVF-Ovarian Stimulation Protocols.
• Ovarian Stimulation in Women Who have Diminished Ovarian Reserve (DOR): Introducing the Agonist/Antagonist Conversion protocol
• Anti Mullerian Hormone (AMH) Measurement to Assess Ovarian Reserve and Design the Optimal Protocol for Controlled Ovarian Stimulation (COS) in IVF.
• Human Growth Hormone Administration in IVF: Does it Enhances Egg/Embryo Quality and Outcome?
• The BCP: Does Launching a Cycle of Controlled Ovarian Stimulation (COS). Coming off the BCP Compromise Response?
• Blastocyst Embryo Transfers should be the Standard of Care in IVF
• IVF: How Many Attempts should be considered before Stopping?
• “Unexplained” Infertility: Often a matter of the Diagnosis Being Overlooked!
• IVF Failure and Implantation Dysfunction:
• The Role of Immunologic Implantation Dysfunction (IID) & Infertility (IID): PART 1-Background
• Immunologic Implantation Dysfunction (IID) & Infertility (IID): PART 2- Making a Diagnosis
• Immunologic Dysfunction (IID) & Infertility (IID): PART 3-Treatment
• Thyroid autoantibodies and Immunologic Implantation Dysfunction (IID)
• Immunologic Implantation Dysfunction: Importance of Meticulous Evaluation and Strategic Management 🙁 Case Report)
• Intralipid and IVIG therapy: Understanding the Basis for its use in the Treatment of Immunologic Implantation Dysfunction (IID)
• Intralipid (IL) Administration in IVF: It’s Composition; how it Works; Administration; Side-effects; Reactions and Precautions
• Natural Killer Cell Activation (NKa) and Immunologic Implantation Dysfunction in IVF: The Controversy!
• Endometrial Thickness, Uterine Pathology and Immunologic Factors
• Vaginally Administered Viagra is Often a Highly Effective Treatment to Help Thicken a Thin Uterine Lining
• Treating Out-of-State and Out-of-Country Patients at Sher-IVF in Las Vegas:
• A personalized, stepwise approach to IVF
• How Many Embryos should be transferred: A Critical Decision in IVF?
______________________________________________________
ADDENDUM: PLEASE READ!!
INTRODUCING SHER FERTILITY SOLUTIONS (SFS)
Founded in April 2019, Sher Fertility Solutions (SFS) offers online (Skype/FaceTime) consultations to patients from > 40 different countries. All consultations are followed by a detailed written report presenting my personal recommendations for treatment of what often constitute complex Reproductive Issues.

Patients are encouraged to share the information I provide, with their treating Physicians and/or to avail themselves of my personal hands-on services, provided through batched IVF cycles that I conduct every 3 months at Los Angeles IVF (LAIVF) Clinic, Century City, Los Angeles, CA.

If you wish to schedule an online consultation with me, please contact my assistant (Patti Converse) by phone (800-780-7437/702-533-2691), email (concierge@SherIVF.com) or, enroll online on then home-page of my website (www.SherIVF.com).

PLEASE SPREAD THE WORD ABOUT SFS!

Geoff Sher

reply
Mayra

Hello

My question is in regards to hCG levels. I had a day 5 frozen embryo transfer and 9 days latter went in for a blood test to check my HCG which was 25, the DR office called me and said the number was a little lower than what they wanted to see but they are hoping it doubles by 48 hours. Should I be worried? What is the level of hCG Drs expect to see after 9 day transfer?

reply
Dr. Geoffrey Sher

Repeat the hCG test in 2 days. My hope/hunch is it will be above 50 and that wouyld give reason for optimism.

Geoff Sher

reply

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